I don't condone Player-Type hatered

A lot of you mortals are quick to fire off remarks that some one is a munchkin, or powergaming as if those terms are something found on the bottom of your shoe after a morning stride though hell's outhouses. Little do you know, incorrect use of terms leads to the idea your thought process is as great as the idea of finding such stuff from above in your mashed potatos and gravy.

Min/Maxer: Every person alive or dead.
Min/Maxing is about getting the most pluses for the least amount of minuses.
Unless you have played a wizard with 8 int you have already min/maxed to a degree, labeling others while claiming your not is a hypocritical action.

Powergamer: Experts, professionals, CEOs, good doctors, etc. fall into this category.
Most often than not in the realm of D&D this is applied to the people that excel in combat and tends to be complained about the most. The thing is, at the heart of its definition is to do your best. Weather it is to best your best in D&D combat, acting out your charecter, getting high grades in school, or creating the mona lisa, you are 'powergaming' in your selected field.

Munchkin: A person who tries to corrupt a game and lead it to prove his or her awesomeness.
Munchkin is a label of intent not the numbers on their character sheets.
Munchkins may or may not abide by rules and exist in 76% of all DM-PCs.

Roll Player: Someone who understands they are playing a game and tends to break the 4th wall.
It does not they bad guy, just someone who has lost the creative art in making invisible friends in an invisible world. Just ignore his remarks of HD the same way he ignores you correcting him on your character's name.

Roleplayer: Believe it or not, this is not a character actor, it is a snob.
This term is invoked by the namer caller them selves targeting their self. They believe it is a good title but do to trash like them taking it up it has lead to a decay in its meaning. Nothing will alert you to the intolerant faster than someone claiming they are a roleplayer.

Charecter Actor: Someone who finds fun in acting out the roles of their character.
Just as you may like to beat the hell out of stuff in game, they like to socialize with people in the game.
See Soap Operas for the stuff they tend to be interested in.

-Mix/Maxer-there is nothing wrong with this. I'd never use it as a bad term.

-Powergamers-are negative players. That HAVE to play a maxed out, super character. It's not just about being good at what you do, it being a demi-god. A good example would be a character with every ability over twenty. No character should be that good at everything.
A power gamer also, beyond all reason, has the perfect group of magic items. They have everything they need to make the character powerful. Sure they walked into the have everything magic shop and were able to simply buy anything the wanted.
A good way to spot a power gamer, is if they have the ability to go Nova. Nova is where they can for a round or two in one battle they can do great things and a lot of damage.....but five minutes later they will be useless. They could take out an army before noon, but then could do nothing the rest of the day.
Another good way to spot a powergamer..is they can't loose. When they pull out Vorpal sword +5 of Doom...they will cry bloody murder if a DM says 'your sword has no effect on the creature'.

-Munchkin-are just silly folk that try to break the rules, they often use the same cheats as a power gamer..but don't have to be all powerful.

-Roll-player-so breaks the 4th wall, they can't sit back and have fun like others. It's all number to them, and they only have fun with numbers. If they encounter something that they can't defeat with a roll, they are lost.

-Role-player-odd it's the only one you insult...so I'd guess that would make you not one. A true role play takes on the role of the character, and are not just a bunch of numbers and rules on a sheet. They want more out of the game then just pure combat. They are against the types above.

-Character Actors-are people who want to have fun and act. Acting is fun.

Now we don't need to start a big flame war or anything...you have your options, I have mine...and never the two will meet.

I hope my free speech that god will not like does not violate thoes rules and such god posted, as I felt they were aimed at people like myself....but if so be it.

Bloodtide wrote:-Mix/Maxer-there is nothing wrong with this. I'd never use it as a bad term.
-Powergamers-are negative players.
-Roll-player-so breaks the 4th wall, they can't sit back and have fun like others.
-Role-player- ... They are against the types above.
-Character Actors-are people who want to have fun and act. Acting is fun.

And blood tide has given me the example I wanted, thank you my child.

Blood claims to be a roleplayer in chat and she says roleplayers are against other types.
Let me say that again, to her, roleplayers are against other player-types they do not prefer.
Unless I am mistaken, that underlines my point of intolerance.

And no, I'm not flaming you my child, nor is this thread directed at Bloodtide. I did expect you would reply to this in the way that you did. In fact, I required such a post to bring to light the point of this thread. But this has little to do with just you. It the fact we have a chance to aim a little higher and get together for continued games. This needs to be addressed and made of point of now instead of creating bigger problems down the road.

There main points of this was to hit on three things.

• Work together. If you are a RPed in a game mostly composed of combat with any combat focused player (PGer or not) you should step back and pay attention to the fact the DM is introducing things that favor a combat based play type. Pull your DM aside after the game and explain to him or her your interests in the game. If the DM does not try to incorporate your style in, then your problem lays with the DM, not the other players.
  
  Admitably in a pickup game this is hard since you cannot continue plots or stories well. But, that is the purpose of these forums, so we can go beyond one time only pickup & drop games.
  
  
• Do not creating problems when there are none. I publicly admit to being a PGer, I have no qualms over it. I find diolog running between the DM and other players boring. Do I stop it or do I make fun of them? No. Sometimes, just closing your lips over how you think their interests are wrong is the best thing in the long run as far as gaming as a group goes.
  
  
• Tolerance. A topic went on the other night in Live, it was yet another roleplayer vs powergamer thing. The RPer stated PGers are always the problem. When it was pointed out that if the group composed of 4 PGs and one RP the problem would be the RPer. The reply back was the PGs are playing it wrong so they are the problem. How can anyone even play a game wrong to start with? Why do the opinions of 4 people disreguarded entirely so fit the needs of one person? The door does swing both ways, and so does this post. Feel free to reverse the RP & PG usage in your head.

Remember, just because some one does not have your play style, looks, skin color, of nationality, it does not mean they are wrong or to be treated as a pariah. Respect your follow gamer if even if all they can do is brag about getting an A in math this semister. Don't look down at the guy/girl who wants spend hours talking about how cute High Prince Rohan's son is. And watch esculation of combat power, if Player A totally looks awesome by slicing a dragon's head off in one blow, Player B should yell to him it still only counts as one.

Bloodtide wrote:A power gamer also, beyond all reason, has the perfect group of magic items. They have everything they need to make the character powerful. Sure they walked into the have everything magic shop and were able to simply buy anything the wanted.

This I feel I have to make another post just to answer this remark. No one assumes the items are picked up at wal-mart, in fact, I rely on the fact my character has been adventuring the last few years and had chances to find, or to commission a mage-crafter(s) to build an item (or two) I wanted. Heck, I if I were creative enough I could invent a whole story about saving some dwarves or something so the rewarded me with masterwork adamantine armor, which I later had enchanted by the heald-mage Memrex. The idea that magical items are picked up at mage-mart is a rollplayer's idea. Not a roleplayers'. Perhapes you are both hmm?

Bloodtide wrote:Another good way to spot a powergamer..is they can't loose.

And the reason you have not decided to join my labyrinth game where you will face a chance to face death is?

This definitely isn't good, guys. Although I agree there are archetypical roles within the realm of role-play, D&D moreso, I don't believe you can classify each player by defining personality traits and proclivities without leaving a huge amount of ambiguity in your wake (you forgot the guy who wears too much cologne and the guy who doesn't wear any at all by the way ). This post is a flame war waiting to happen any how, so instead of lauding and jaunting certain types of people, let's look for a way for others to create more interesting characters and detract from their other side (munchkin, roll-player, etc.). In other words, let's create a "Player Creation Guideline" that focuses on the most crucial points of D&D in equal amounts without over doing any (creating a decent statted character that isn't sucky, providing a back story, etc., etc.).

If a story teller wants more of a background, let him go for it, but at least now he won't get pawned in battle. If a roll-player wants more strength, let him optimize existing character all he wants, so long as he actually has a paragraph or two of back story. The trick is not making these guidelines too restrictive and ultimately allowing the player to choose what he wants. Following me?

I agree in a large part with God's initial arguments, all except the roleplayer. *True* roleplayers are those who enjoy the role play, and actually get into their characters personas. Also note that not all of the archetypes are mutually exclusive, and that they vary in degree (for instance I enjoy the rules, and can make sense of reality through the numbers, but I am also a *true* roleplayer, and I see the numbers as a supplement to the game world, not the game in of itself.)

Ivaylo is right though, this is getting a bit close to a flame war, so let's mellow out a little...
Afterall, it's all fun and games until someone's ego takes a blow...

Ok, as you all know I am all for "power gamming" to me its basic survival. If I told you once you leave your current location their will be an army of 10,000 men comming after you to kill you wouldn't you prepare yourself the best you could?? Or if your about to go on an adventure wouldn't you wanna prepare yourself for whatever you may endure?? You have X amount of gold go spend it wouldn't you buy the best weapons or scrolls or potions or magic items to help you in any encounter?? I believe the only reason why the term "power gammer" has even come about because new players don't know as much as the experienced ones. If your good at hunting and I am a noob at it does that make you a power hunter?? No it makes you someone experienced at what you do. I guess what I am trying to say is power gammers FTW and noobs will learn to get better as they CHOOSE to make their characters better.

two comments:

1.) OMG LIFE!!!

2.) Tranc, I think the main problem with power gamers (as seen by haterz) is that power gaming is done in metagamed fashion. Of course the characters will min/max what they buy, but the manipulation of rules that results in "power gaming" by traditional standards is the combination of class/feats/race that the character may not conciously understand, and definately wouldn't understand "the right combination" to get the massive spam combos.